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Makers and Making: Towing a bicycle with a motorcycle the maker way.
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May 17th 2006
I have two hobbies, motorcycles and mountain bikes. I have one car, one motorcycle, and 1 mountain bike. My wife drives the car, so I am looking for a way to get the bike to the trails, without leaving my wife without transportation. I also live in an apartment, so any solution has to space efficient. Weight is also a concern, since the motorcycle has a total load capacity of 350lbs, and the less weight being pulled, the better.
My first thought was to mount a hub from a front wheel on the back of the motorcycle, and use the bike's quick release to attach the bike to the motorcycle. Then I could just tow the bike, and it's real wheel would just roll along. I would eat tires on longer trips. However, I am concerned about the legality of this, and the durability of bike tires. I am not sure how well a bike wheel and tire would handle sustained speeds of 50-65mph (I would use a dedicated wheel and tire). It is similar in concept to this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Motorcycle-Trailer-Hitch-Style-Carrier_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34284QQitemZ4640683836QQrdZ1
My other thought is to make a small light trailer. I figure I could use a the tray piece of a roof mount bike rack, and some metal tubing. The only thing is, I am not sure what i would use for wheels and axle. I want the lightest thing possible, but most of the stuff I have seen looks fairly heavy.
Oh, and as you have probably guessed by now, I am OK with being one of the wierder things on the road.
What do you guys think?
My first thought was to mount a hub from a front wheel on the back of the motorcycle, and use the bike's quick release to attach the bike to the motorcycle. Then I could just tow the bike, and it's real wheel would just roll along. I would eat tires on longer trips. However, I am concerned about the legality of this, and the durability of bike tires. I am not sure how well a bike wheel and tire would handle sustained speeds of 50-65mph (I would use a dedicated wheel and tire). It is similar in concept to this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Motorcycle-Trailer-Hitch-Style-Carrier_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34284QQitemZ4640683836QQrdZ1
My other thought is to make a small light trailer. I figure I could use a the tray piece of a roof mount bike rack, and some metal tubing. The only thing is, I am not sure what i would use for wheels and axle. I want the lightest thing possible, but most of the stuff I have seen looks fairly heavy.
Oh, and as you have probably guessed by now, I am OK with being one of the wierder things on the road.
What do you guys think?
May 18th 2006
Hmm . . . here in MA if it has wheels that touch the road it requires a registration to be towed by a motor vehicle.
I think I would do something like this:
<img src="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5982/1187/0/Picture011-765580.jpg">
Jake.
<a href="http://bike-recumbent.com">Recumbent Bikes</a>
I think I would do something like this:
<img src="http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5982/1187/0/Picture011-765580.jpg">
Jake.
<a href="http://bike-recumbent.com">Recumbent Bikes</a>
May 18th 2006
I'm not sure if such things are legal where you live, but it may be worth considering a single-wheeled trailer.
This type of trailer uses a hinge-type coupling rather than a ball coupling and leans with the bike. Something which just had to carry a bicycle could be made in a very minimalist fashion.
This type of trailer uses a hinge-type coupling rather than a ball coupling and leans with the bike. Something which just had to carry a bicycle could be made in a very minimalist fashion.
May 18th 2006
A friend who was in law enforcement says that there are no special regulations for towing a road-legal vehicle, and a bicycle is a road legal vehicle. I think I may just try towing the bike. I just have to find a durable tire and wheel for the towing.
May 18th 2006
Make sure you limit the travel of the fork on the fork mount. A good pot hole at 50 MPH might kick it up high enough to jam the handle bars into your back.
Another suggestion, take off both wheels, bungee it all together and carry it on your back with a bike messenger style strap.
Jake.
<a href="http://bike-recumbent.com/">Recumbent Bikes</a>
Another suggestion, take off both wheels, bungee it all together and carry it on your back with a bike messenger style strap.
Jake.
<a href="http://bike-recumbent.com/">Recumbent Bikes</a>
May 19th 2006
Check that website, someone is selling something that seems to do what you are looking for:
http://www.justxr.com/cycbycyc/
http://www.justxr.com/cycbycyc/
May 19th 2006
Here is another website from that guy with more detailled pictures:
http://tinyurl.com/le69k
http://tinyurl.com/le69k
May 26th 2006
Ricardo is the master of this... Check out this thread, lots of pictures and ideas, and more at the link at the bottom.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131858
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131858
Jun 21st 2006
Hey guys thanks for the info. The links are great. I would like to try making the one where you pull the bike, and the rear wheel is on the pavement.
Does anyone know how bike wheels and tires will handle that?
Does anyone know how bike wheels and tires will handle that?
Jun 22nd 2006
Hello nugget0,
I've never actually done what you are trying to do, but your question about bike wheels and tires and how they will handle high speed is interesting. The first thing I would do is make sure whatever wheel and tire you are going to use is well balanced. See if you can find a motorcycle shop that will put your bike wheel on their tire balancing machine. Note: this is dangerous, as the wheel and/or tire may fly apart during testing from the high rotational speed not normally seen by bike tires. It would be a good way to see what will happen without having it happen behind you on the freeway, though...
Another thing to do would be to measure the distance between the rear dropouts on the bicycle and find out what width hub and how wide a tire you can fit in there. There may be a skinny gas dirtbike wheel/tire combo that might fit. Then you get a DOT legal wheel/tire combo no problem. Balance is still critical, but at least it will be a "standard job" for the motorcycle tire shop.
You could also avoid the trailer issue altogether with creative bracketry. The mountain bike probably weighs 25 lbs or less. That weight, plus a bit for some brackets, can probably be fairly well compensated for on a motorcycle if it is hanging out behind the rear tire. All you need to make is a bracket that mounts to the motorcycle's rear wheel overhang on one end and has a tight pipe-clamp style bicycle mounting clamp on the other end. Make sure the clamp is "wide" enough that the bike won't want to twist around the clamp, and make sure it is tight enough that the bike won't swing left or right in corners. To make a shorter overall package, take both mountain bike wheels off and bungee them to the sides of the frame. This will allow a lower mounting position, too. Note that you'll want to mount the bicycle into the clamp by the top-tube, so the tires face behind you. No front forks in your back! For daylight riding, attach a red shop cloth to the back of the bike. For night riding or safer overall riding, splice into your motorcycle's taillight wiring and hook up a single brakelight you can attach to the back of the bicycle as-mounted on the rack. You'll end up with probably about 30 lbs overall hanging out over and behind the back tire of the motorcycle, and you can likely tailor the center of gravity somewhat depending on where you bungee the tires/wheels. Note that I have never ridden a motorcycle (though I may be getting one soon! Yes I'll be taking a safety course...) so you will have to decide what handling compromises you can accept. The red shop cloth/extra brake light are the kind of thing that is required on loads that stick out of the back of cars by a certain distance. I don't know of any similar regulations for motorcycles, but check into it and if you are following the closest applicable law you can find, any cops that look askance at what you are doing will at least see that you are trying to be as safe and legal as possible.
Depending on what you tend to motor over on the way to the trailhead, you may want to come up with some sort of cover for the bike to protect it from whatever the motorcycle tires pick up and sling at it.
A strong note of caution: Whatever you do, make sure the bicycle tires are NOT in the path of the motorcycle exhaust gases. They STINK when they overheat...
An even stronger safety note: Whatever you do, make sure the bicycle cannot drop bits of itself into the rear wheel or chain of the motorcycle.
Have fun.
I've never actually done what you are trying to do, but your question about bike wheels and tires and how they will handle high speed is interesting. The first thing I would do is make sure whatever wheel and tire you are going to use is well balanced. See if you can find a motorcycle shop that will put your bike wheel on their tire balancing machine. Note: this is dangerous, as the wheel and/or tire may fly apart during testing from the high rotational speed not normally seen by bike tires. It would be a good way to see what will happen without having it happen behind you on the freeway, though...
Another thing to do would be to measure the distance between the rear dropouts on the bicycle and find out what width hub and how wide a tire you can fit in there. There may be a skinny gas dirtbike wheel/tire combo that might fit. Then you get a DOT legal wheel/tire combo no problem. Balance is still critical, but at least it will be a "standard job" for the motorcycle tire shop.
You could also avoid the trailer issue altogether with creative bracketry. The mountain bike probably weighs 25 lbs or less. That weight, plus a bit for some brackets, can probably be fairly well compensated for on a motorcycle if it is hanging out behind the rear tire. All you need to make is a bracket that mounts to the motorcycle's rear wheel overhang on one end and has a tight pipe-clamp style bicycle mounting clamp on the other end. Make sure the clamp is "wide" enough that the bike won't want to twist around the clamp, and make sure it is tight enough that the bike won't swing left or right in corners. To make a shorter overall package, take both mountain bike wheels off and bungee them to the sides of the frame. This will allow a lower mounting position, too. Note that you'll want to mount the bicycle into the clamp by the top-tube, so the tires face behind you. No front forks in your back! For daylight riding, attach a red shop cloth to the back of the bike. For night riding or safer overall riding, splice into your motorcycle's taillight wiring and hook up a single brakelight you can attach to the back of the bicycle as-mounted on the rack. You'll end up with probably about 30 lbs overall hanging out over and behind the back tire of the motorcycle, and you can likely tailor the center of gravity somewhat depending on where you bungee the tires/wheels. Note that I have never ridden a motorcycle (though I may be getting one soon! Yes I'll be taking a safety course...) so you will have to decide what handling compromises you can accept. The red shop cloth/extra brake light are the kind of thing that is required on loads that stick out of the back of cars by a certain distance. I don't know of any similar regulations for motorcycles, but check into it and if you are following the closest applicable law you can find, any cops that look askance at what you are doing will at least see that you are trying to be as safe and legal as possible.
Depending on what you tend to motor over on the way to the trailhead, you may want to come up with some sort of cover for the bike to protect it from whatever the motorcycle tires pick up and sling at it.
A strong note of caution: Whatever you do, make sure the bicycle tires are NOT in the path of the motorcycle exhaust gases. They STINK when they overheat...
An even stronger safety note: Whatever you do, make sure the bicycle cannot drop bits of itself into the rear wheel or chain of the motorcycle.
Have fun.
Jun 22nd 2006
Cajun,
Impressive comments.
About the balancing: that seems like a good idea to me. It is actually a simple process. Anyone can balance motorcycle tires at home. I think that would work just fine for a bicycle tire. Check out this picture:
<img src="http://faq.ninja250.org/images/d/db/Mount_balance_15.JPG" />
<a href="http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Mounting_%26_balancing_in_words_and_pictures">How to change and balance motorcycle tires</a>
Look at this picture from one of the pages that is linked to further up in the thread:
<img src="http://www.justxr.com/cycbycyc/cycbycyc2.jpg"/>
I sent an email to the guy asking him about his experiences towing the bicycle specifically pertaining to bicycle wheels and tires. I like the towing option because it would be much simpler to build, and leaves space on the motorcycle for additional cargo.
Also since you mention that you are interested in getting a motorcycle, I highly reccomend the Kawasaki Ninja 250. It is the best small displacement motorcycle available in the US. It sells for ~3k brand new, will get 60-70mpg, and get to 60mph in less than 6 seconds. There is also a <a href="http://www.ninja250.com/home.htm">community of makers</a> devoted to the bike. Be sure to take a look at the <a href="http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Main_Page">FAQ</a> they have. I own one, and I really love the bike.
Impressive comments.
About the balancing: that seems like a good idea to me. It is actually a simple process. Anyone can balance motorcycle tires at home. I think that would work just fine for a bicycle tire. Check out this picture:
<img src="http://faq.ninja250.org/images/d/db/Mount_balance_15.JPG" />
<a href="http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Mounting_%26_balancing_in_words_and_pictures">How to change and balance motorcycle tires</a>
Look at this picture from one of the pages that is linked to further up in the thread:
<img src="http://www.justxr.com/cycbycyc/cycbycyc2.jpg"/>
I sent an email to the guy asking him about his experiences towing the bicycle specifically pertaining to bicycle wheels and tires. I like the towing option because it would be much simpler to build, and leaves space on the motorcycle for additional cargo.
Also since you mention that you are interested in getting a motorcycle, I highly reccomend the Kawasaki Ninja 250. It is the best small displacement motorcycle available in the US. It sells for ~3k brand new, will get 60-70mpg, and get to 60mph in less than 6 seconds. There is also a <a href="http://www.ninja250.com/home.htm">community of makers</a> devoted to the bike. Be sure to take a look at the <a href="http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Main_Page">FAQ</a> they have. I own one, and I really love the bike.
Jun 22nd 2006
nugget0,
Thanks for the praise. :-)
Cool, so it looks like it's been done before the trailer way. As for the balancing, that's just static balancing. Usually "good enough" but dynamic balancing (that's what the machine is for) can compensate for some imbalance across the tread width as well. Of course, I'm used to cars, so a motorcycle tire may be narrow enough where it doesn't matter.
I'd still like to see whether or not the wheel/tire is going to fly apart on you at speed, though...
The ninja looks nice, but I've found a $200 1984 Kawazaki KZ550 owned by a good friend that is in "almost running" condition. Clean the carbs and ride away. I'll probably fix the speedo, torque the head bolts to get rid of the oil seepage and replace the leaking (only leaks when over half full) rear driveshaft gasket. Tabs expire this year, so it was ridden last year sometime, tires have mabye 500 miles on them, bike has about 21,000 on it. 45mpg approx with full fairing. No rust, which makes it REALLY nice for a Minnesota bike.
Good luck, and have fun!
-cajun
Thanks for the praise. :-)
Cool, so it looks like it's been done before the trailer way. As for the balancing, that's just static balancing. Usually "good enough" but dynamic balancing (that's what the machine is for) can compensate for some imbalance across the tread width as well. Of course, I'm used to cars, so a motorcycle tire may be narrow enough where it doesn't matter.
I'd still like to see whether or not the wheel/tire is going to fly apart on you at speed, though...
The ninja looks nice, but I've found a $200 1984 Kawazaki KZ550 owned by a good friend that is in "almost running" condition. Clean the carbs and ride away. I'll probably fix the speedo, torque the head bolts to get rid of the oil seepage and replace the leaking (only leaks when over half full) rear driveshaft gasket. Tabs expire this year, so it was ridden last year sometime, tires have mabye 500 miles on them, bike has about 21,000 on it. 45mpg approx with full fairing. No rust, which makes it REALLY nice for a Minnesota bike.
Good luck, and have fun!
-cajun
Jun 22nd 2006
nugget() sez:
"Anyone can balance motorcycle tires at home."
Note that the procedure described is static balancing only. Dynamic balancing is necessary for high speed stability.
"Anyone can balance motorcycle tires at home."
Note that the procedure described is static balancing only. Dynamic balancing is necessary for high speed stability.
Jun 23rd 2006
Check out these forums for bike racks people have made for vespa-style scooters<br>
<a href="http://forums.stellaspeed.com/viewtopic.php?t=4111">Bike mounted next to the rider</a><br>
<a href="http://forums.stellaspeed.com/viewtopic.php?t=4084&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30">Mounting the bike on the rear rack</a>
<a href="http://forums.stellaspeed.com/viewtopic.php?t=4111">Bike mounted next to the rider</a><br>
<a href="http://forums.stellaspeed.com/viewtopic.php?t=4084&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30">Mounting the bike on the rear rack</a>
Jun 28th 2006
I can't see those posts. The forums want a registration, and when I try, they never send the confirmation email.
Jun 29th 2006
Jul 10th 2006
I have also made a mount, but it works on my cruiser. I have ridden all over the state of Texas with it up to 90 plus MPH. Doens't effect the milage of the shadow. My new rack will have the back 1/2 removeable leaving the front for weed day office commuted with the laptop.
http://www.msnusers.com/Biketomotorcyclemount/shoebox.msnw
Tate
www.dorba.org
http://www.msnusers.com/Biketomotorcyclemount/shoebox.msnw
Tate
www.dorba.org
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